Christina Allison: And I think it's really that our students can do it. They're not broken. There's nothing wrong with them. If they come in with unfinished learning that I think it's our responsibility as educators to give them the opportunity and the support they need to engage in their grade level content and do so in a meaningful way, do so in a way that's not-

Jon Orr: On our podcast today, we speak with Chrissy Allison. Chrissy is a former middle school math teacher and instructional coach who spent the past seven years supporting school administrators and their coaches to improve teaching and learning through professional learning and instructional coaching. She's the host of the Mindful Math Podcast and she works full-time as online coach for school and district level math coaches, specialists, and instructional leaders.

Kyle Pearce: Stick with us. And you will hear ideas, tips, and insights about how to support students with unfinished learning in mathematics. You'll also hear how to differentiate lessons and tasks to meet students where they are while moving forward with the content from the current grade level.

Jon Orr: Let's hit it!

Kyle Pearce: Welcome to the Making Math Moments That Matter Podcast. I'm Kyle Pearce.

Jon Orr: And I'm Jon Orr. We are from Making Math Moments That Matter and together...

Kyle Pearce: With you, the community of math moment makers worldwide who want to build and deliver math lessons that spark curiosity...

Jon Orr: Fuel sense making.

Kyle Pearce: And ignite your teacher moves. John, we are getting ready to dive into a conversation with Chrissy, who is a newer friend of ours and fellow podcaster. And guess what? I really like the message she's sharing with our audience today.

Jon Orr: Totally. The ideas of unfinished learning hit home for us as we've often talked about students who are coming into a grade and you're like, "Ah, I wish the kid had what they were supposed to get from that previous grade," but we all know that that is the norm. That's exactly what it happens. We talk about that with Chrissy here and how to build that into your program as well as save that time you get worried about when you think you have to go back and teach past curriculum from a different grade. We're going to talk about that here today. We're excited. Let's just go right to it, Kyle. Let's jump in with conversation with Chrissy.

Kyle Pearce: Hey there, Chrissy! Thanks for joining us here on the Making Math Moments That Matter Podcast. How are things going in your neck of the woods, and you know what, let people know where is that neck of the woods?

Christina Allison: Hey, guys! Thanks so much for having me on. Things in Chicago are great. That's where I live and we are having a beautiful summer and it's good. The pandemic is coming to a close almost and things are opening back up, so we're really taking advantage of all of that and just enjoying the summer.

Jon Orr: Awesome stuff. Glad to hear that. Give us a little backstory on your teaching journey. How do you get into that educational role and maybe fill our listeners in on your educational role? Give us a little story here.

Christina Allison: Sure. I was one of those little girls who always played school with my siblings, our stuffed animals, whomever I could pull together to be my class. I always loved school myself, enjoyed going. Even if I was sick, I would drag myself there. When it was time to pick a major in college, it seemed like a very obvious choice to go into education. And having always loved math, I picked math as my major and elementary ed as my minor. But a couple years in when I was looking at my semester course load and it was calc three, differential equations, a few other math classes, I was like, "Nope." Meanwhile watching all my friends take some of these other gym for elementary teacher classes, and I was like, "Why am I doing this?"
I switched to being an elementary ed major and math minor, which matters only because I think I would've enjoyed those higher levels of math, but I was intimidated by them. And it was kind of the first time I had really been confused in math class. And you can see, I decided to opt doubt. I referenced that sometimes I think back to that sometimes when students are struggling and confused and it's like, I can understand why sometimes they want to avoid because I did too. It's not fun to be sitting in a class and feeling like you don't know what's going on.

Kyle Pearce: For sure. That's something that we can definitely relate to. I know myself specifically, I had a pretty, I would say, smooth sail through most of K to 12 math. A little later, things got a little trickier, but I sort of chalked it up to being social and maybe not doing as much work as I should have, but when I got into those more abstract math courses in university, I really felt very similar to you. There was times where I was thinking maybe I'm not a math person. I really like how you've kind of framed it and looked through maybe through your own eyes, but then through your students eyes at a different stage of life. That's a very challenging thing for us to do if, let's say, we didn't struggle with some of the concepts as early on as some other students do. I really like that. Tell us a little bit more of your role now. What are you up to these days in math education and we'll dive into your math moment?

Christina Allison: Let's do it. After college, I taught middle school math among other things for a couple of years, more than a couple... for a number of years, I should say before becoming a math instructional leader at a charter school here in Chicago. And then after that, for the past eight years, I've been out of the school setting, first working as the director of math professional learning for a couple of educational nonprofits here in the states. And then the past year and a half, I started my own business to support math educators online, so that's what I'm doing now.

Jon Orr: We're going to dive into that work that you're with the teachers that you work with online and wherever else that you're working with teachers, but before we do, we have to get to one question here, which is our question that we ask every guest on the Making Math Moments That Matter Podcast, which is what is your math moment? When we say that, a little stage here for you Chrissy, that we always try to ask people to think back to their experience in mathematics.
Usually, we try to think like when we say math class, there's this image that pops in your mind because it stuck with you from when you were young, you carried it forward and sometimes it's like this image of this math class that might have some negative connotation, but it also could have been a positive experience. We let people kind of decide what that experience is for them and then we would love to know that kind of story behind that moment, so wondering if you can let us know about that.

Christina Allison: This is a really interesting question. Thinking back on my elementary and high school years, it's telling, I think, that nothing really stands out to me. The lessons was fine. I enjoyed math as I said, but there's not many memorable moments in there in terms of-

Jon Orr: Which is itself a memorable moment.

Christina Allison: ... a memorable moment, other than around the world and things like that, which I excel those games, but I had to go all the way to college to think about something that really stands out and it was in my math for elementary school teacher's class when my professor taught us about different number systems. And it was then that I learned that ours was called the Hindu Arabic system. I didn't know that. And she took us through Roman numerals and the Mayans and lots of different number systems. And eventually, she had us do some work within base five.
That's when I was like, okay, I see why math is not always intuitive to kids and to other people, because working within the base 10 system, I don't know, it made sense in my mind, but trying to regroup and divide in base five was not intuitive at all. And so, it just gave me this window into how foreign it can be to students when we're introducing them to things like, "Hey, after 9, it becomes 10, and now there's two digits." It's like, that makes sense to us because I think we've, at least to me, I've used the number 10 my whole life. That just seems obvious. But to a kid, it's really not obvious that after nine, you would then have a one then a zero. So that was really eye-opening and something that absolutely sticks out in my mind.

Kyle Pearce: Fascinating. And it's so interesting because when you go down this path and you really get to the nuts and bolts of it, and I know with your experience in middle school, this may or may not have been on your radar, but for me, coming out of high school and then going into my role as a K to 12 math consultant, I've spent a lot of time really trying to understand how math develops and how counting develops and how students understand numbers and operations and something that is really interesting is just this idea of unitizing.
We actually talk about outed a lot in our fundamentals of math course inside the academy and we go through some of these examples and one of them is our base 10 system and even just talking about how 12, why is 11 and 12... Why do they have their own name and they're not teens like 21, 22? Why isn't it not like 10-1, 10-2? And there's some thought out there that actually 11 and 12, like a base 12 system is actually so much more convenient for so many things like fractions, for example. 12 actually is so much better to chop up into different pieces, whereas 10 is not.
There's so many instances where we want to deal in base 10 and it's just not convenient. Look at percentages, 33.33333%, it doesn't work well and those are things that just are fascinating as a middle aged man who never thought about this as a child. And I think you just kind of highlighted it. Think of how easy it would be to count by when base five, let's say, if you're using your fingers.
This is really interesting. I'm wondering, with all of this in your math moment, I'm wondering Chrissy, how did this help shape your teaching practice? How did this influence you as you went into the classroom? Again, going all the way back to your experience in university and college, where you thought holy smokes, I know what they feel like. Then now, you're thinking about, wow, math is actually really complex and oftentimes, we sort of shake it off as just sort of obvious. How is this influencing what you've done in the classroom and I guess what you're doing now as you're helping math educators?

Christina Allison: I think it gave me this value of conceptual understanding and constructivism. This idea that we make meaning and we need to understand what it is that we're learning. I think so often in math, it's taught procedurally and step by step. And so, even thinking back to elementary where, as I mentioned, it did come naturally to me, but when I noticed that a lot of my classmates were struggling even as early as fifth grade, sixth grade, I would help my friends out during lunch and same thing in high school and in college, I became a tutor for other aspiring elementary teachers.
And one thing that I found is that when people have that window into the why behind it, when you help them see what's going on underneath the procedure, it really helps. It not only helps them to be able to do the problem, but it helps build their confidence because they're like, "Oh, I get it. This makes sense."
It takes it from being this foreign thing that they're trying to follow the steps that someone else is giving them that don't really make sense to them to being like, "Okay, I think I can do this." And so, I think that experience about the base five was just... that moment for me, where I got to be on the other side of it and I'm like, "Oh, this is why." I got that this is why moment. And so, as a teacher, I always try to provide that for my students, not just the what we're doing, but the why.

Jon Orr: Sure. And that's a great lesson to have learned to carry forward into your classroom and I think we all are striving for that and I think when I remember back to me as a teacher from a number of years ago before I started to make necessary switches in my programs, I was always the person who's very traditional high school math teacher in the sense that I wanted to help kids as much as possible, but I still had that mindset that even though I would tell myself mathematics was problem solving and understanding the math.
But when it came to working with kids in the classroom, I was very much the teacher that said, "Let's just get this memorized or let's just get this procedure down." And kids who are like, "Well, I want to know why." And then when you try to explain why that one time and they're like, "Well, but I still don't know why." And then you're like... And it's like, that was me for a long time instead of trying to teach through the why and teach through where this comes from. And I think that's gains in what I'm doing in the classroom now.
It was so exciting to hear you talk about that, but Chrissy, let's dive into some of the work that you are doing now. You used the phrase a number of times and talk about unfinished learning, which I think is a term some of us kind of start to think about like, I think I know what that means, but I'm wondering for our listeners here, you can talk a little bit about what you mean by unfinished learning and why we should know about this.

Christina Allison: Unfinished learning is any learning that when you look at the standards, a student was the focus of a previous grade level, I'll say it that way. If I'm a sixth grader and there was something that's in the fourth grade and fifth grade standards that was a focus of learning and I haven't quite mastered it yet. I don't have that deep understanding of it. Maybe I'm not fluent with the procedure as I meant to be by that point. And even that term, meant to be by that point, scratch that, but when you go into the next grade level then, there's this expectation sometimes that everybody is all caught up and at the same place in their progression of learning.
And so, instead of saying, students are behind, my students have gaps, those kinds of things, I just like to look at it as it's unfinished learning from this previous grade level, it's totally natural like we do not all march through the progression at the exact same pace. And it just means that it needs some more attention and we need to find ways to continue to strengthen that skill, continue to strengthen that understanding.

Kyle Pearce: I love that and something that really pops into my mind as I hear you describe this, your definition of unfinished learning is just let's go back to what we just discussed about base 10. And I feel like it's never finished, and I think kind of having this mindset that in math class, how often do we hear those teachers? I say those. I was one of them, so I want to make sure sometimes I say things and I'm like, "Oh, that didn't sound right." But what I mean is we were those teachers, I think we've all been there. There's rarely someone who comes in and sort of as it all kind of organized in their mind, because I used to think like, well, if they're coming from grade eight to grade nine, they should know this, this, this, this, this, and of course, most didn't or had what we would say, an unfinished sort of learning experience going on.
And what I realized is that math is... It's all unfinished. It's never finished and that just sort of promotes this idea of constantly coming back to ideas and thinking of interesting ways that we can dive deeper. And again, if you were to say to me that, "Hey, playing in base five is really hard especially when we work with division." Everything we do with counting is a division problem like how many 10s are in there, how many 100s are in there. We're doing a quota division problem. I really love that.
Now, I'm wondering though, there's some people listening and they're going, okay. Okay, Chrissy. Okay, Jon. Okay, Kyle, there's unfinished learning, but how do I deal with that? Do you have any sort of strategies or ideas or let's say you're a teacher who literally just came off of thinking the same thing that, oh boy, in the first week this coming school year, I had students that they don't know this or they don't know that and they were supposed to have done that. They were supposed to have "covered" that.
What are some ideas, some things that teachers can maybe lean on to get started where they can feel like they're actually respecting this idea of math being and everything really that we learn as being unfinished and how do I approach that without, let's say, running out of time or worrying about the curriculum or whatever that hurdle or roadblock that a teacher might be thinking in their mind right now?

Christina Allison: Gosh, there's so much. My mind, I'm like, where do I go with this answer? I would love to speak a little bit about teachers and then I actually have some thoughts for administrators because sometimes, let me say it this way, administrators can support teachers with this challenge or they can get in the way and make it harder.
For teachers, I think the first thing you've already kind of alluded to, which is this reframe about it. I think as much as teachers can accept this and just look at it differently that learning is a progression and the kids are going to be at various points. If you go in with the expectation that everyone will be right at the beginning of ninth grade and have everything mastered from K-8, you're going to be disappointed and you're going to have to redo all your plans probably.
I think like coming in, don't even expect that. Let's just accept that the reality is going to be that students are going to be at these different places and kind of give them some grace. I almost said it along with you when you said students, they should know this. When we think about that, I think it brings up feelings for a lot of teachers of fear, anger. There's a lot that goes along with this feeling of the kids are behind and I don't have enough time to catch them up. And when we feel that way, most of us, the natural response is to try to pack more in, try to rush through things more, sometimes to blame, just to say, "I don't have time to deal with the stuff from before. We're just going to plow ahead." There's all kinds of responses that are actually not helpful, but that are very natural when you have this, I think, responsibility. Teachers, I think, feel a grave responsibility to teach students and help them learn the content of their grade level.
And so, recognizing that there's this unfinished learning from previous grades, I do think it brings along a lot of motion and fear and all kinds of things. I would say, first of all, just give yourself some space to think about that and deal with the mindset piece of it and that shift of, it's okay, take some deep breaths and now what can I do?
I think the second thing for teachers then is having the belief... This can be challenging, but having the belief that students can do grade level content. They can engage in it even if they have someone unfinished learning. And so, one of the things that's really helpful and there's actually research now to back this up, Zearn and TNTP have some data and you can go look that up if you want, but it shows that actually starting off the year with the grade level content and weaving in just in time support, it actually accelerates student's learning more than what you might think.
The way a lot of us would think is, hey, I first got to teach them everything from the previous grade levels before we can get to my grade level, that actually it's counterintuitive, but that sets kids back. And I also think from, again, the teacher mindset perspective, I would think that that would be a relief to say, "Oh gosh, okay. I don't have to now compress my entire grade level into three quarters because I'm going to spend the first quarter reteaching. I can keep my same pace," but this is point number three now, "I need to prioritize."
The reality is okay, if we're going to follow through with, let's say, ninth grade, we're going to follow kind of the scope and sequence of ninth grade, but I know there's a lot of unfinished learning. It is going to take more time because cause you're going to be weaving in those prerequisites as you go. You're going to have to pause and do some extra concept building or skill building, whatever it is.
And so, I think as much as you can on the front end, think that through and be like, okay, what are some of the most important concepts, units, standards, and there's tons of resources out there now. In fact, if you want, I just created a three-part video series about how to plan for unfinished learning. They're 10 minutes each. The first one is about annual planning. The second one is unit planning and the third one is daily lesson planning. And I mentioned some helpful and free resources that are out there that can help you do this. But the bottom line is, again, I think sometimes there's this disconnect between what we all kind of know is true and then what's put out there as the ideal.
And what I think we all know to be true is if there's unfinished learning that we want to address, it's going to take longer. But then sometimes the scope and sequence that's put in front of teachers is the ideal. It's like, let's just do all of it and we'll just combine two lessons together into one day and that's how we'll make up the time. And it's not realistic. And like I said, I think most of us know looking at, like that's not going to happen. I'm saying how about we just actually have a real conversation and say, "That's going to be really hard to do. Why don't we pick which of these lessons, let's prioritize one of these," or, "Let's do some prioritizing up front and just admit that we might have to cut a couple things."

Jon Orr: You've got some really key ideas here. Let's just do a quick recap here because we asked you to say how do we do this in our classroom, you gave us three big ideas here, three things. And you said the first thing, and you can make sure you correct us here if we've captured them all correctly here is the first you said is that we have to have this belief that unfinished learning is normal and it's part of learning because a lot of us are saying, "Hey, I'm going to teach grade nine. You should already know your fractions. I'm not going to teach fractions." And we have to realize that, hey, everyone's coming with different levels and it's normal that we have a lot of unfinished learning or there's unfinished learning for each student and it's not the same for every kid.
The second thing you said was we have to have this belief that every kid can do the grade level work and you gave us some good research here to help with that about not doing that pre-teaching and I think a lot of used to... I did that for sure, Chrissy, was like, "Hey, I've got to start unit one is all grade eight stuff. I got to go through all the fractions and I got to go through adding and subtracting. I got to go through some of the solving equation even before we even..." And our first unit was measurement. It was like, "We got to go through all this stuff before," so I think that's a really key idea here is that we can't do that. And we shouldn't do that and the research supports that.
And the third thing is because we can't do that, we have to prioritize what are the big ideas here, like big ideas. And that's actually what led Kyle and I to do a lot of work on spiraling and adopt that idea of spiraling concepts. What are the big ideas of the course and how can we blend those together? A lot of the tasks that we are producing have done that and we always continually try to do that because we know that there's a huge advantage in spiraling curriculum, in interweaving big ideas together. So, three big things from you.
I'm wondering right now, you've talked about those three things. I'm wondering, do you have any specific resources to help teachers on how to do some of this in the class? I know that would be grade specific, but maybe you can point us in a few different directions.

Christina Allison: Absolutely. I've pulled together some of my favorite strategies to increase access to grade level math, that's how I've been thinking about it. And I pulled them into a bundle, which you can get on my website, which is mindfulmathcoach.com. It's called the Increase Access Resource Bundle and there's 10 strategies. Many of them are instructional routines, just like simple things you can layer into your lessons that will help create a bridge for students or an on-ramp, however you want to look at it, to help get them from kind of where they are to at least be able to engage with the grade level task in a meaningful way so that they can participate and that you have confidence in putting that in front of your students. They'll be meaningful learning and it's not just going to be wasted time.
There's also, in that bundle, a planning guide and a chart about asset-based versus deficit-based language, which is also another thing, just the way we talk about this using the term unfinished learning instead of gap. But the way that we talk with students about their learning and the way that we talk about students about where they are, that has meaning, that has an impact. And so, I think that's another thing.
In terms of specifics, I've actually been co-authoring a blog series with a former colleague of mine and it's on achievethecore.org. We're rolling them out this summer. And I think we have four or five of them of the six posted and it's the Middle School Unfinished Learning blog post series. I can send you the link to that if you'd like to put it in the show notes, but otherwise, I was going to say, just go to achievethecore.org and look in the blog, the Aligned blog, and you'll find those. But what we do there is two of them are for sixth grade, two for seventh grade and two for eighth grade where we actually take a specific standard and kind of walk it through this three-part framework that I created along with someone else.
The three part framework is really just this simple way to try to look at and plan for unfinished learning. The first step is understand. Understand the standard you're teaching and where it sits in the progression. In the blog series, we take the standard and kind of unpack it basically. This is what the standard means and this is where it fits. And then second, it's diagnosed. What do your students know about this? What are the key prerequisites and what do you know about their level of understanding about those prerequisites right now?
And so, we give of some ideas about what some of those key prerequisites are for that specific standard and some simple ways that you can try to gauge where your students are. And then third, take action. What are you going to do about it now? And then again, we have some resources, some tasks and just some kind of thoughtful approaches about what can you do then if you have diagnosed that for this particular standard, this is a key prerequisite and you suspect or you have data that your students have unfinished learning with it.
Here are some things you can do and they're very concrete. I would point them to those as a starting point and no, it doesn't cover every stand you'd ever teach, but it's more sort of walking them through that same framework in all six of the examples. It's to help teachers kind of at least see a process that they can use then and apply to other content that they're teaching.

Kyle Pearce: Love it. That's awesome. There's been a ton of great getting started ideas and next steps for educators to access. I'm wondering Chrissy, if educator is listening to this right now on their jog, washing the dishes, driving the car, what is the big idea or big takeaway that you hope to leave with them if, let's say, they were going to describe this episode to a friend later today, what would they say? What was the big takeaway you're hoping that they walk away with here today?

Christina Allison: I think it's really that our students can do it. They're not broken, there's nothing wrong with them if they come in with unfinished learning, but I think it's our responsibility as educators to give them the opportunity and the support they need to engage in their grade level content and do so in a meaningful way, do so in a way that's not all procedural, that's not all remediation. This is a long-winded way. You asked me for the big idea, I mean the short version is that students with unfinished learning can engage in grade level work. It just takes a different mindset and a different approach.

Jon Orr: Awesome. I think that kind of sums up a lot of the things that we discussed here and I think people are like, yes, I'm on board with you and I love that you've given us some takeaways here in the form of resources that our teachers, the Math Moment Maker community here can kind of dive into a little bit deeper. And also Chrissy, you've given us those, some links that we're going to throw in the show notes page for sure for all of you to grab. But is there, there any other place or any other work you, I know that maybe you want to chat about your podcast here just a little bit and maybe anything else, where can Math Moment Makers connect with you and learn more about what you are doing just to dig even deeper?

Christina Allison: Absolutely. My website, as I mentioned earlier, is mindfulmathcoach.com. I pretty much have everything that I work on there. That's a good one stop shop for you and I'm new on Twitter, but I'm trying to be more active there so you can find me there @Mindful123Coach.
And then I think, I also have a podcast for math educators and leaders, coaches, and instructional leaders. It's called the Mindful Math Podcast. You can find it on any podcasting platform. It's also linked on my website and I talk... There's episodes there about... I consider my podcast, it's like professional development for the whole teacher. You know how we do like teaching the whole child? I kind of think of it as it's for the whole teacher.
There are episodes about teaching math specifically, but there's also episodes about mindfulness and self care. There's an episode about how to manage up to your principal if you have something that's not working for you, and you've been quiet about it before. What's a way that you can advocate for yourself? I try to think about what are all the different things that play into a teacher's joy and success in the classroom, and also, like I said, coaches and instructional leaders. And so, it's not just specifically about math.

Kyle Pearce: I love it. That's fantastic. And you have quite a few episodes now. I think you're almost into the 50s.

Christina Allison: Yes.

Kyle Pearce: Which is awesome, so congratulations on that. And Jon and I are both fans and you kind of handle your podcast much like ours, where there's kind of a sprinkling of interviews with some solo episodes and I just think that's fantastic. Thank you for bringing that to the math community today. I know going back to what I will take away, definitely this unfinished learning idea is huge. And it is so key that we as educators understand that we are constantly learning. A lot of people say educators need to be lifelong learners. Everyone is a lifelong learner, whether you believe it or not, you are and we have to make sure that our mindset is shifted towards that idea and I think that's so fantastic.
I'm hearing big messages about ensuring that the math is accessible, that students can do the grade level work. Now, again, we're not going to start with the end goal, but we're going to start with an accessible task that is on point heading towards that standard for that particular grade level and that's going to help us understand where some of the more unfinished learning is.
Lots of takeaways here. We want to thank you so much, Chrissy, for hanging out with us today and we definitely hope to connect with you at some upcoming face to face conference at some point soon.

Christina Allison: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a lot of fun.

Kyle Pearce: As always, both Jon and I learned so much from every episode that we record here at the Making Math Moments That Matter Podcast, but remember, in order to ensure that new learning sticks so it doesn't wash away footprints in the sand, how are you going to reflect on what you've learned? For us, we get a chance to write these bumpers after the fact and really reflect on what were the big takeaways for us. What is your big takeaway and what are you going to do to ensure that it sticks and maybe even plan for how you are going to put it into action?

Jon Orr: Yeah, and a great way to do that is you could chat with someone like your partner or a colleague from your school or school district, or hey, you can do it with us at the Math Moment Maker community. You can hit us up on @MakeMathMoments on social media or jump over to our free private Facebook group, Math Moment Makers K through 12. We've got super active teachers always sharing questions and asking questions and getting feedback right on the spot over there on Facebook. Check us out there.

Kyle Pearce: And if you want to take a deep, deep dive, you can head over to the Make Math Moments Academy at makemathmoments.com/academy and you can dive in for 30 days with us, give it a shot, see how things are going and maybe dive into some learning, maybe building on that learning that you grabbed here today.

Jon Orr: In order to ensure you don't miss out on new episodes of podcasts as we... they come out each Monday morning, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.

Kyle Pearce: Show notes, links to resources, and complete transcripts to read from the web or download and take with you can be found over at makemathmoments.com/episode152. Can you believe 152 episodes? Again, that's makemathmoments.com/episode152. Well, until next time my Math Moment Maker friends, I'm Kyle Pearce.

Jon Orr: And I'm Jon Orr.

Kyle Pearce: High fives for us.

Jon Orr: And high five for you.