LISTEN NOW HERE…

OR JUMP TO YOUR FAVOURITE PLATFORM

WATCH NOW…

Episode Summary:

What if our students were not focused solely on finding the correct answer? What if they felt motivated to discuss and explain math topics? If we want students to deeply understand topics, they need to communicate their thinking, construct arguments, and listen and respond to others. They need to DebateMath!

Listen in as Chris Luzniak, author of Debate Math shares his insights on how to get your students arguing in math class. Chris is here to give you a sneak peek of his upcoming 2024 Make Math Moments Virtual Summit session: Arguing In Math Class. 

Resources:

• Debate Math
• 2024 Make Math Moments Virtual Summit
• Make Math Moments Problem Based Lessons & Units

Attention District Math Leaders:

How are you ensuring that you support those educators who need a nudge to spark a focus on growing their pedagogical-content knowledge? 

What about opportunities for those who are eager and willing to elevate their practice, but do not have the support? 

Book a call with our District Improvement Program Team to learn how we can not only help you craft, refine and implement your district math learning goals, but also provide all of the professional learning supports your educators need to grow at the speed of their learning. 

Book a short conversation with our team now. 

FULL TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00:07 – 00:00:23:11
Jon Orr
What if students were not focused solely on finding correct answers in your math class? What if they felt motivated to discuss and explain our topics on a regular basis? If we want students to deeply understand math topics, they need to communicate their thinking, construct arguments and listen and respond to others. In this episode, we’re going to talk with Chris Lesniak, and we’re gonna talk debate math.

00:00:23:12 – 00:00:38:18
Jon Orr
So let’s get into it.

00:00:38:20 – 00:00:42:24
Kyle Pearce
Welcome to the Making Math Moments That Matter podcast. I’m Kyle Pearce.

00:00:42:24 – 00:00:46:00
Jon Orr
And I’m Jon Orr, we are from makemathmoments.com

00:00:46:02 – 00:00:55:04
Kyle Pearce
This is the only podcast that coaches you through a six step plan to grow your mathematics program, whether it’s at the classroom level or at the.

00:00:55:04 – 00:01:11:05
Jon Orr
District level. And we do that by helping you cultivate in foster your mathematics program like strong, healthy and balanced. So if you master the six parts of an effective mathematics program, the impact that you are going to have on your teachers, your students will grow and reach far and wide.

00:01:11:07 – 00:01:25:05
Kyle Pearce
Every week you’ll get the insight you need to stop feeling overwhelmed, gain back your confidence and get back to enjoying the planning and facilitating of your mathematics program for the students or the educators that you serve.

00:01:25:07 – 00:01:48:00
Jon Orr
All right, before we get into this episode, listen in. As Chris Lesniak, author of Debate Math, he shares his insights on how to get your students arguing math class. He’s here to give you that sneak peek on his upcoming 2024 Make math Moments virtual summit session, which is called arguing in math class. You’re going to discover how to create structured debates that make math concepts more engaging and reliable for students.

00:01:48:01 – 00:02:07:13
Jon Orr
So listen in and let’s get to it. Hey there, Chris. Welcome back to the Making Math Moments That Matter podcast. I feel like you probably in a way, I don’t know, Kyle. He’s got to be a contender for like a lot of guests because we had you back on a while ago. We were on your podcast a couple of times and I think we released some of those over here on our podcast.

00:02:07:13 – 00:02:17:23
Jon Orr
But people have heard your voice here probably just as much as any of our guests. So I want to welcome you back here specifically today. How are things are going?

00:02:18:00 – 00:02:29:08
Chris Luzniak
Well, thanks for having me back. Yeah, we’ve had a good relationship back and forth between our podcast and stuff. I love having and by the time this comes out, your hot seat debate will be really, really fun, right?

00:02:29:10 – 00:02:52:06
Kyle Pearce
I think about that. I almost forgot about that, but definitely something to check out. We’ll be sharing it on social media for all those math moment makers out there. When we’re going to go back to your podcast and have some fun over there. You know what, Chris? We we’ve asked you math moments back in the past, you’ve been a part of our summit and you’re coming to be a part of the summit again here in 2024.

00:02:52:08 – 00:03:15:16
Kyle Pearce
So I think for a lot of people in the audience, they probably know a little bit about Chris Lesniak here and debate math. But I think what we want to dig into here is maybe a little bit of some of maybe the differences, you know, that you’ve seen since we were just chatting before we hit record. And I think people would be curious to know, it’s like we are always growing, always learning, right?

00:03:15:16 – 00:03:36:18
Kyle Pearce
And sometimes even it’s not necessarily a belief shift, but it’s just when you observe different behaviors of students, like when I do things a certain way, you get different results and over time you start to refine how you’re doing things. I’m curious, what have you learned over these past few years that maybe you wish you knew five years ago?

00:03:36:18 – 00:03:41:14
Kyle Pearce
Maybe it was ten years ago as you began this journey of debate math?

00:03:41:16 – 00:04:10:17
Chris Luzniak
Well, yeah, I mean, my book and all that stuff started almost ten years ago now, as some of the things I’ve done and some of the early stuff I have is like 15 years old or so. And so like I said before, this is the pandemic and like learning how to teach online pre all the things happening modern with I think the world has changed so much and I just you know, I’ve had a good five, ten years to just explore other things like I love debate and I’ve been thinking a lot about how to engage your students.

00:04:10:17 – 00:04:27:10
Chris Luzniak
Yes. And I still talk about that and work with teachers on that. And like my role now, I’ve left the classroom after almost 20 years of teaching high school and middle school math to work with teachers all around the world, around debate math, but also because of abandoned rabbit holes of like what debate does and how the brain makes arguments.

00:04:27:10 – 00:04:46:23
Chris Luzniak
I started to think a lot about how debate can help adults as work with some math coaches and some like teams of teachers and like how we can use debates to disagree about things and even leaving the math education world and working with adults in the world of like politics and business. And what does it mean for your team to disagree in a good way?

00:04:46:23 – 00:05:05:02
Chris Luzniak
And I learned a lot about I think debate is actually the key to helping people get along better, even though that sounds kind of counterintuitive. But if we actually learn to have good arguments, it can make a big difference. And so I work with students and think about that as well as students. But now I’ve grown to like thinking about adults and all these other places.

00:05:05:02 – 00:05:07:18
Chris Luzniak
So my mind is all over the place when it comes to debates.

00:05:07:20 – 00:05:30:00
Jon Orr
Right? Right. That’s super true for sure. And I think focusing on how you can disagree peacefully is almost like I think I just heard this, like this is way I think I use the word peacefully and I’m going to butcher where I heard it, but it was on a podcast lately. Lately. But it was like they were talking about it wasn’t specifically debate, but it was about how to it was Simon Sinek.

00:05:30:00 – 00:05:46:22
Jon Orr
You guys know who Simon Sinek is, but it was like he was talking about how to specifically talk to other people so that it was in a peaceful way. And he was like, That’s the secret to world peace. So what I just heard Chris say is that if you all learned how to use debate in math class, we will have world peace.

00:05:46:24 – 00:05:51:12
Chris Luzniak
I wouldn’t be powerful here. Math students could no skills, totally content.

00:05:51:14 – 00:06:06:15
Jon Orr
It totally it was like because it is like if you can figure out how to get along and disagree peacefully, then it fixes so many things. And I think that’s so important of all the work that you’ve been doing. So I know that also you’ve been out of the classroom, you’re bouncing around and doing different sessions with different teachers.

00:06:06:15 – 00:06:27:14
Jon Orr
You’re hearing how teachers are using this resource or trying to implement. What would you say is one of the most asked questions that you get when you’re, say, at a live session from a group of teachers and they’re trying to implement some of the things you’ve talked about in your book or some of your workshops in your sessions or, you know, or maybe they’re just trying to kind of do something in the classroom.

00:06:27:14 – 00:06:32:17
Jon Orr
But what’s coming up all the time that you’re consistently answering or helping teachers with?

00:06:32:19 – 00:06:54:19
Chris Luzniak
I think the biggest thing for teachers is how do I start and kind of overcoming that initial resistance. I get that a lot and I’m sure that you guys experience it well. Working with teachers like just anything new for teachers can often feel daunting or like, what does that look like? When you say the words debate, people think of yelling and screaming like like this aggressive thing.

00:06:54:19 – 00:07:11:20
Chris Luzniak
And that’s not what I mean. Like, there’s a world of competitive debate that’s cool and that’s a thing that I did in high school. But I think of debate now. Rob and I on our podcast talk about all the time. I think of debate as a structured conversation where as one has a voice and so framing it that way really helps give people some point of view.

00:07:11:22 – 00:07:29:12
Chris Luzniak
And so like in my work because of this, I’ve been doing a lot of learning labs with teachers and like just being working with them in their classroom to like create some debatable moments and then launch it and just see what happens. Because you get that feedback of like, well, this works for your kids because you are in California and whatever, right?

00:07:29:17 – 00:07:47:22
Chris Luzniak
You are with high school or whatever. And so I jump in their classroom, say like, we’ll create a lesson. Let’s do this tomorrow and see what happens. And I think that’s the most exciting thing for me. I love being back in the classroom for any moments that I can, but then teachers see their students come alive because we’re asking them questions that really just engage the brain.

00:07:47:22 – 00:08:04:14
Chris Luzniak
They can’t help wanting to say something about their opinions and use math vocab at the same time, which is a win for the teacher. Right. And talk about methods and conceptual understanding and all those things. And so jumping in the classroom is really my favorite thing to do now. And that’s my answer to that frustration.

00:08:04:16 – 00:08:20:01
Kyle Pearce
Yeah, I could definitely see how it would be a challenge. Yeah. Anything new, whether you’re a teacher or in any area of life, anything new is a little bit scary. It’s a little daunting. Now, you also have an audience in a classroom. Right now. You have students as well, but you also have these other things on your mind too.

00:08:20:01 – 00:08:52:17
Kyle Pearce
You have like parents. You’re like, How do I maybe address the content? How do I ensure that I’m quote unquote, covering that content? And when we think about it, though, and you think about that skill that you’re allowing students and empowering students to develop and you think about the five mathematical proficiencies, the piece around adaptive reasoning is so key to me here, and it’s an area that I think we haven’t done well historically in mathematics and math education anyway.

00:08:52:19 – 00:09:14:21
Kyle Pearce
And I feel that by giving students this opportunity and when we say opportunity, it’s like sometimes it’s a hidden opportunity because I’m sure sometimes students don’t enjoy the idea of this at first, right? So I’m curious for you, I can only imagine as a teacher who I used to be a very procedural teacher, there isn’t a back and forth.

00:09:14:23 – 00:09:33:15
Kyle Pearce
I can only imagine that’s another barrier for teachers to sort of overcome. So what does that look like and sound like? Do you have any maybe starter routines or is there something that you feel has been working better more recently that you’ve landed on, that you’ve been sharing in these learning labs that might be helpful to some of those listening?

00:09:33:15 – 00:09:42:03
Kyle Pearce
And hey, if you want to give them a sneak peek into the summit session, feel free to open the door a crack to encourage some folks to attend.

00:09:42:05 – 00:09:57:08
Chris Luzniak
Yeah, I would say so. First of all, when I do these learning labs and teachers classrooms, we acknowledge that it may not go well. We have a goal of student discourse and debate happening, but it may not go well. So everything is a trial and error and I like embrace the growth mindset and all those things with that.

00:09:57:08 – 00:10:11:12
Chris Luzniak
So we have we go in that and if it doesn’t go well, then we will just have a good conversation afterwards in our reflection time, right, of what would have made it go better. But if it does go well, which often it really goes well, some of it that we have a good discussion afterwards anyway, though, about like what parts make it go well.

00:10:11:12 – 00:10:30:04
Chris Luzniak
And so we talk about things like what you’re asking about giving students very clear directions, like sentence stems and like, does it mean you’re talking to one person in the whole room? What is your eye contact? What what is your body language like? What is that supposed to look like? And then with all those clear directions, like what it means, again, we’re not getting up and yelling at each other.

00:10:30:04 – 00:10:49:14
Chris Luzniak
That’s not like that kind of argument, right? What it means to give a formal argument and debate in math class looks different. And so being very clear about that and then making sure that the questions are actually ones that I want to or students want to debate and talk about. There’s often times where we come up with a question we think is going to be great.

00:10:49:16 – 00:11:04:06
Chris Luzniak
We throw it out there and it is just like crickets like that wasn’t a good one. And I tell teachers all the time like, don’t be afraid to skip it. Be like, okay, you got to sneak up there. Okay, You’re right. You’re right. There’s not much I don’t know. We’re debating cats versus dogs, and no one really cares today about that one.

00:11:04:12 – 00:11:19:14
Chris Luzniak
Okay, let’s dive into maybe I have a back up question maybe or something, but just laugh at it and have fun with it and know that there is no formula for the perfect conversation. Right? You’ve just among adults in life that there’s no way we can like, script out a conversation. You have to just be willing to kind of roll with it and laugh it off.

00:11:19:14 – 00:11:39:04
Chris Luzniak
It doesn’t go well. And just the fact on why it doesn’t is your end of the day class, you know, after lunch, exhausted every time they come to see you and do something different, something more physical to get them awake, pay attention. Or is it just a group of kids that don’t feel like they’re good at math or they are missing some vocab or something?

00:11:39:04 – 00:11:43:06
Chris Luzniak
You know, what is it? So there’s so many variables to consider.

00:11:43:08 – 00:12:21:24
Jon Orr
Yeah. And I think thinking about that, when you said laugh it off or skip it or change it on the fly, I think it’s still like I always try to put myself in teacher’s shoes who are either not competent Branham kids yet on a regular basis, or the maybe that math intimidates themselves still. And it’s like it’s kind of like it’s one of those terms of knowledge for us, is that us laughing it off or saying, Let’s just modify on the fly, like let’s go off script is like just so easy for us because of the experiences we’ve had, the confidence in the subject matter, probably the confidence we built up teaching, we taught teenagers.

00:12:21:24 – 00:12:41:14
Jon Orr
I think you taught your teenagers and it’s like just having that confidence in the classroom is is huge for being able to kind of like go off script. And I keep thinking about those teachers who were like, I need the script. It’s like everything I’m clinging. You can see them like shaking with it, right? It’s like, I need to read it word for word, or how do I go off script?

00:12:41:14 – 00:12:57:23
Jon Orr
Like, how do I make I’m confident enough to go off script. And I think that’s still a struggle for a lot of teachers to kind of go, Where do I go from here? And I feel like there’s like, that’s a I think that’s still a barrier for so many teachers, kind of like trying something new, right? It’s kind of like if I try something new, where could that go?

00:12:57:23 – 00:13:14:20
Jon Orr
And am I ready for that? Oh, my gosh, I’m not I’m not sure I’m ready for that. And I don’t know. I always try to think about what would I tell those teachers if I’m trying to get them to try something new? I’d be curious to hear what you say. Maybe it’s the same thing I would say, but I’m all ears because I don’t think any of us have the exact right answer, you know?

00:13:14:22 – 00:13:27:16
Chris Luzniak
No, I know, but but. But I’ll say, like, there’s a group of teachers that I’ve been working with this year and something I noticed is in some of the lessons we were creating, they weren’t.

00:13:27:16 – 00:13:28:07
Jon Orr
Super.

00:13:28:07 – 00:13:42:08
Chris Luzniak
Clear on what their objective was like. Like today we’re going to learn about slope, but like what is you know, there’s so much about slope, like how to write it, what part of the equation it’s in, you know, what does it mean to be increasing or decreasing rise over on the formula, like where do you want to go and some just tough times.

00:13:42:10 – 00:14:02:12
Chris Luzniak
It could take hours to kind of like make a lesson. If you are that vague and you keep like drawing, you can Google a slope and find a million worksheets and decimals and decimals activities and other things, right? There’s so much. But I think that relates to debate in that in debate we have to have a resolution that we are debating and whenever on our podcast and we have guests on ahead of time, we work with all of them to figure out the wording of this.

00:14:02:12 – 00:14:10:07
Chris Luzniak
Like, are we debating Cats are better than dogs, Are we debating? Cats are easier to raise than dogs. You know, what is it like?

00:14:10:09 – 00:14:22:01
Jon Orr
I remember you pushing us on that and I think we were like, I don’t know, like, can we just talk? And you’re like, No, we’re going to make sure that we have like, what is it that we’re actually saying? Which one of us is on the side of or the not the side up?

00:14:22:03 – 00:14:42:19
Chris Luzniak
Yeah, it’s a key to a good debate. Even goes back to like I have a theater background as well. I did theater in college and I think about all the improv you have to do as an actor on stage. But you know what your intention as a character. So it’s the same with teaching. Like if you really your goal really is I want everyone today to be able to tell me the difference, you know, positive or negative.

00:14:42:19 – 00:15:10:06
Chris Luzniak
So like what that means, if you have that clear goal, then you can go off and do the lesson with the angles, with parallel lines and try to wrestle, you know, the alternate interior angles and same side angles with teachers. And about halfway through, I just went back to like the beginning of the lesson question and said, can we now, like, tie this back into like what we started off with and point out some things and relationships here and we never got the second half of the lesson, but I could see that like bringing that back up just in a moment.

00:15:10:10 – 00:15:22:05
Chris Luzniak
There’s no one way to do that, but it’s something I made up and they were like, Oh, that was so brilliant. I was like, Well, there’s a thing I thought about because all I wanted was for them to leave with. I think it was like, Understand the vocab of those words or the relationships of those angles or something like that.

00:15:22:05 – 00:15:37:13
Chris Luzniak
So I’m just going to come back to anything that will help me hit that point. And that’s, I think the biggest struggle for teachers is there’s so much in our minds. We want to have group work strategies, we want to have discourse. We want students to be loving math and feel included and all the other things which are also great.

00:15:37:15 – 00:15:42:01
Chris Luzniak
But then we sometimes forget why. The point of today’s lesson is like, what is our real goal?

00:15:42:03 – 00:16:01:23
Kyle Pearce
Yeah, I think it’s so easy for that to happen because there’s so many things you could do and it’s like, Well, I want to cover all of those things, but let’s be realistic and like, what will we cover? Because if we aren’t clear, then we’ll probably not cover anything. What kind of skim over everything and sort of see and hope that someone got something.

00:16:01:23 – 00:16:22:15
Kyle Pearce
So what I’m hearing from you is this theme of intentionality, right? So whether it’s debate or whether it’s just a math lesson in general, the reality is that we have to really know what is it that we really want them to know and understand and be able to do at the end of a lesson or at the end of a week or at the end of a unit.

00:16:22:17 – 00:16:45:02
Kyle Pearce
And the more intentional we can become. Actually, I think this is also a nice gateway to actually better understanding the mathematics ourselves, because there’s many times where there’s a concept that we’re supposed to teach and if we don’t really think deeply about it, you might think it’s just this, but in reality it’s like much bigger or the opposite.

00:16:45:02 – 00:17:09:16
Kyle Pearce
You think it’s really big and then maybe you’re focusing on everything, but in reality, everything’s not that important at that point in the learning journey, right? So I love that move. And you sort of highlighted, oh, it’s the same idea as when you’re speaking. If you’re speaking to a group and you’re trying to get a point across, you need to be very clear on what that point is because you don’t want everybody leaving the talk going.

00:17:09:18 – 00:17:25:09
Kyle Pearce
He said a bunch of really interesting things, but like, what is the point of that? And you look back and I look back at my own teaching career and think about how many times did kids walk away from my lesson thinking that, Right, okay, but why did we just do that? What’s going on here? Why does that matter?

00:17:25:15 – 00:17:27:20
Kyle Pearce
What am I going to do with this stuff right?

00:17:27:22 – 00:17:28:18
Chris Luzniak
Yeah, for sure.

00:17:28:20 – 00:17:43:11
Jon Orr
The other things specifically to say what you said there, Kyle, is kind of like saying like, if you know the intentionality, then there’s a million pathways to get there and it doesn’t matter which one almost the time is, it doesn’t matter which one to go down as long as I end there. So it’s kind of like when I think about it.

00:17:43:11 – 00:17:55:24
Jon Orr
I mean, like I remember talking to somebody I think was wanting daughters who had to, like, get up in front of people and do a speech. I said, like, what is it that the main point you’re trying to make here? And because she thought she had to write it all out and then read it, and I was like, you know what?

00:17:56:00 – 00:18:09:17
Jon Orr
You don’t have to write it all that might help for you. But I mean, like, if you keep in mind what is the main point you’re trying to make or the main points you’re trying to make? Keep that in mind and then that’s all you have to really remember. And then if you believe it, then you’ll get there.

00:18:09:20 – 00:18:36:18
Jon Orr
You’ll make the point in the moment and then it’s like, you don’t have to say stress about sticking to the script because you know the point and you can figure out the ways to get there. Chris Before we hit record, we were chatting about differences over the course of the years and how things have changed. And I’m curious about you said you kind of started this almost like ten years ago, which sounds crazy, but what is one thing in the book that you would change if you could?

00:18:36:20 – 00:18:39:24
Chris Luzniak
But you’re asking me to remember what’s in the book and what’s not.

00:18:40:01 – 00:18:40:19
Kyle Pearce
In.

00:18:40:21 – 00:18:54:01
Chris Luzniak
The world of the book. What was in the book was most of what I had done at that point. But over the years, like you all like constantly toying and playing with new things, creating my stuff. So I don’t even know what’s exactly in the book anymore. And what’s come out.

00:18:54:03 – 00:18:56:06
Jon Orr
Is like every, every week before, you know.

00:18:56:07 – 00:19:18:12
Chris Luzniak
I don’t I don’t study it to test myself, but I just like things in there are great, Like it’s a good starting point and it’s where I started from. And then once I got comfortable because I was a very traditional teacher, like I had my students in rows and I was doing most of the talking in class. And I thought mostly because I was in my twenties, in my early teaching career, I thought I was going to be young and energetic and technical instead of math class and really.

00:19:18:12 – 00:19:19:16
Jon Orr
Worked for a while.

00:19:19:18 – 00:19:21:18
Chris Luzniak
Now I know some.

00:19:21:23 – 00:19:23:03
Kyle Pearce
Classes, so. Really?

00:19:23:04 – 00:19:38:01
Chris Luzniak
Yeah, you know, Yeah, I mean, I was a midwestern Ohio boy who was in New York City public schools and didn’t even have, like things in common with the students. I had just moved to New York for this work, so it took time to learn and grow and connect. But for me, the debate math like it’s done, the discourse.

00:19:38:01 – 00:19:56:11
Chris Luzniak
But it was like giving me a way to start and try something. And so like, what’s in there is how I started and how anyone can read it and please feel free. So to take those ideas and run with it. But like from that I’ve become so comfortable, like I said, changing and on a fly right? Like just building off what students are saying.

00:19:56:13 – 00:20:14:21
Chris Luzniak
So doing these discourse routines has helped me become more flexible as a teacher. And then over the years, like I just realized how much it goes along with everything else. Like once we have a talking routine down like a debate math, we can like look at the New York Times. What’s going on Is graphs something I learned about after the book, right?

00:20:14:22 – 00:20:42:03
Chris Luzniak
Or we could which one doesn’t belong, which I think there’s plenty of those in the books. But like other things that have come up over the years, some of those activities, like things like that, can all be talked about with debate math. So I just keep taking it further and further. And even like the projects which I need to put online at some point, I’ve been building projects with teachers now like what’s like a full day look like if students are like exploring a real world thing and has some kind of like debatable product at the end, like what does that look like?

00:20:42:03 – 00:20:55:17
Chris Luzniak
And so the things like that that have grown out of the book, I’d say there’s nothing. I don’t know what’s in the book anymore, but I know like I’ve gone in so many directions and built so many more new questions and puzzles, and now I just feel comfortable, like playing all the time with lessons and teachers.

00:20:55:19 – 00:21:37:11
Kyle Pearce
I love it. And I’m hearing like, obviously, I think the repetition, right? Like the experience that you’ve gained over time and learning and growing and all of these things are going to make you more flexible. So that’s probably one of the most important pieces when someone gets started. I guess our last question here before we start to tie a bow on today’s episode to give people a little glimpse into your summit session, I’m wondering, is there something that comes up or that you look back and you go, If I could go back and just like add this one thing, maybe this one, maybe it’s a clarification, maybe it’s I wish this one move I had

00:21:37:11 – 00:21:57:24
Kyle Pearce
known back then or recognized precise. Really? Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. I mean, you can take it anywhere you want, but it’s like I know you and I, John, Like there’s, like times, like we’ve gone back and been like, you know, remember that, like, presentation we used to do way back when? We’re like, Man, we should have been talking about this one thing and we did it and we wish we could have gone back and done that.

00:21:57:24 – 00:22:05:03
Kyle Pearce
Like, is there something in that book that if you could just insert that in there, you would go back and do it again?

00:22:05:03 – 00:22:21:16
Chris Luzniak
You’re asking me to remember what’s in the book? I don’t know. I mean, the vague idea I think the vague idea is still there. I’m guessing if I want to read it now, it might feel, I don’t know a little. Another word is here, like restrictive or formulaic. Like I was like, here’s how to start, here’s how I did it.

00:22:21:16 – 00:22:45:00
Chris Luzniak
And that was also for my comfort level in the early stages, Right. But I think it’s much more open ended now and it goes in so many directions. I think I would add to the book, I have spent a lot of time going on rabbit holes, studying brain science, both biological and psychology, and what makes a good argument and how we really convince people is something I didn’t get to get into in the book because I was still starting to figure those things out.

00:22:45:00 – 00:23:05:13
Chris Luzniak
And I’ve learned a lot and I’ve been doing a lot of work in that realm. So and I will be talking about this at the summit. I was like, Really? What does it mean to convince someone? How do we convince them and why are things like group work tied to that to being a good convincer? And so how all these things we want to do in our classroom are all really interlaced and interdependent on each other.

00:23:05:15 – 00:23:27:22
Jon Orr
Yeah, Awesome. Awesome. Looking forward to that session for sure. And we’re super excited for you to be part of the summit is coming up in November of 2024, be the sixth annual summit and there’s going to be a session on debate math. Chris, any last thoughts you want to leave with the listener on that session or anything else that you just want them to know about?

00:23:27:24 – 00:23:30:05
Chris Luzniak
I think I’m just going to leave them with a question.

00:23:30:05 – 00:23:32:02
Jon Orr
Oh, yeah, a little bit.

00:23:32:04 – 00:23:38:20
Chris Luzniak
So I will leave listeners with a question and we’ll talk more about this later. Or maybe I should do two questions and I can just I would.

00:23:38:20 – 00:23:39:11
Jon Orr
Like it like.

00:23:39:13 – 00:23:42:12
Kyle Pearce
Go for it if you want to debate over it.

00:23:42:14 – 00:23:56:21
Chris Luzniak
Yeah, got debates and we’ll talk more about this later on. But my my first question is, are Eminem’s more like Skittles or Hershey’s bars? Oh, answer that however you want.

00:23:56:22 – 00:23:58:02
Jon Orr
I like it.

00:23:58:04 – 00:24:06:03
Chris Luzniak
And the second one is a penguin. More like an eagle or a whale.

00:24:06:05 – 00:24:10:24
Jon Orr
Mm. Carl’s going to have something to boast about. Baseball practice tonight.

00:24:11:01 – 00:24:19:21
Kyle Pearce
Yeah. Now it’s a baseball game on game so that they’ll be like, why don’t you give them the steal sign? I’m like, I was thinking about penguins, but what can you do to.

00:24:19:21 – 00:24:22:16
Chris Luzniak
Talk about penguins in my session?

00:24:22:18 – 00:24:49:04
Kyle Pearce
That is awesome. That good starters there. Chris, We so appreciate having not only knowing you, learning with you, but also having you as a guest here on the podcast. Also in the summit. We are excited to welcome you back for those who are listening, that is Friday, November 15th, Saturday the 16th and Sunday. The 17th comes after the 16th in November 2024.

00:24:49:04 – 00:25:10:11
Kyle Pearce
So head to make math moments dot com forward slash summit and get yourselves signed up for a free ticket to hop into one of the most awesome math learning events of all and Chris you are one of the reasons it is so awesome so thanks so much for joining us here today and getting our wheels turning here as we approach the summit.

00:25:10:13 – 00:25:15:21
Chris Luzniak
Thanks for having me back, guys, and thanks for welcoming back to the summit, too. I’m excited to share some new debate math stuff.

00:25:15:23 – 00:25:39:08
Jon Orr
Awesome. Thanks, Chris. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Chris Lesniak. Chris is going to be presenting at the 2020 for Make Math Moments Virtual Summit. If you have not yet registered, get yourself over there. Pre-registration was open in the summer and by the time you’re listening to this, it’s possible that you can start choosing sessions. So get on over to make math moments dot com for slash summit.

00:25:39:10 – 00:26:02:10
Jon Orr
Choose your sessions, get yourself registered and you can be listening and engaging live with Chris and many other speakers. We have Sunil Singh joining us. We have Christopher Childs joining us. Joe Bowler’s going to be here. Peter Lillard all is joining us. Panelists say to we got we got so many presenters coming up again this year. This is the sixth annual make math moments virtual summit.

00:26:02:10 – 00:26:12:18
Jon Orr
Don’t miss out. We’re going to have thousands of teachers join us over the course of a weekend in november. Head over to make math monster.com for class summit. Get yourself signed up.

00:26:12:20 – 00:26:17:22
Kyle Pearce
All right there, math moment makers. Until next time, I’m Kyle Pierce.

00:26:17:22 – 00:26:18:23
Jon Orr
And I am John or.

00:26:18:23 – 00:26:21:10
Kyle Pearce
High fives for us.

00:26:21:12 – 00:26:24:23
Jon Orr
At the high bar for you. Oh.

Thanks For Listening

• Book a Math Mentoring Moment
• Apply to be a Featured Interview Guest
• Leave a note in the comment section below.
• Share this show on Twitter, or Facebook.

To help out the show:

• Leave an honest review on iTunes. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one.
• Subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify.