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Ready to transform your math classroom into a space where students feel empowered, take risks, and truly engage in meaningful learning and mathematical discourse?

In this episode of the Making Math Moments That Matter podcast, we sit down with Crystal M. Watson to explore how educators can shift from being the “knower” at the front of the room to becoming facilitators of authentic student-driven discourse. If you’re struggling with balancing direct instruction and student-centered learning, this episode is for you!

• Discover actionable strategies to create a classroom culture where students feel safe to take risks and participate in rich mathematical discussions.

• Learn how to integrate both direct instruction and inquiry-based learning to enhance student engagement and understanding.

• Gain practical tips for fostering an environment of continuous learning and improvement for both you and your students.

Tune in now and equip yourself with the tools to foster deeper mathematical thinking and collaboration in your classroom!

Resources:

• Register for the Make Math Moments Virtual Summit
• Make Math Moments Problem Based Lessons & Units

Attention District Math Leaders:

Not sure what matters most when designing math improvement plans? Take this assessment and get a free customized report: https://growyourmathprogram.com 

Ready to design your math improvement plan with guidance, support and using structure? Learn how to follow our 4 stage process. http://makemathmoments.com/discovery/ 

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jon Orr: Hey there, Crystal. Thanks for joining us here on the Making Meth Moms That Matter podcast. Like we said in the introduction or the before we hit record here, it’s been a long time coming. A long time coming. So we’re excited to chat with you, chat about your upcoming virtual summit session and all things mathematics. So how you do and let us know, you know, where are you coming from?I know you’ve been kind of jumping from place to place and you rushed to get here today.

Crystal Watson: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is such an awesome opportunity for educators to be able to get some really deep, awesome professional development for free. I tell people it’s the free 99 making math moment. So let’s go, everybody better pop up and be in the place. Know now I am in I’m still in Cincinnati public schools. I moved into a principal role this year. Okay. As well. So I’m about 45 days. Yes. Thank you. And it is most days very, very rewarding. Some days I’m like, I’m ready to go back to the classroom.

Right now I’m in Columbus, Ohio, at the OTM conference, just finished a diversity equity and inclusion panel to close out the conference. So yeah, that’s right. That’s my life right now. Beauty.

Jon Orr: Yeah, for sure. I’m going to I’m going to dig here. I’m super curious as soon as you know your your role change from from classroom in the classroom to administrator, what would you say? Is it say that that biggest that biggest change that you’re like someone would be like I wish you had told me this. I wish you’d told me this. Like, what’s and, you know, thinking about teacher administrator, what would be that big that big thing you wish you knew.

Crystal Watson: That what you did in the classroom is not necessarily what everybody else does. And it like such, right? It seems like duh. Yeah, common sense. But it’s like some of the things that I thought everybody did because it was basic teaching to me is not a skill that everybody carries. So and I noticed that when I was coaching, I was the math coach for the district for a while, for two years.

And I noticed that when I was coaching and I’m like, Oh my gosh, you don’t do this already. You don’t talk to kids, you don’t ask them how they like what they think about class or what they need more or less of that, you know, those types of things. And I just wish somebody would have been like, Crystal, when you get out of the classroom, do not carry your memories with you as the, you know, the litmus of what should be happening in a classroom because it doesn’t make it worse or better. Right? It’s just different. And everybody has a way to approach the mathematics classroom differently.

Yvette Lehman: That’s a perfect segue way actually, into our question. When you talked about memories and experiences, we always ask guests on the show what is a memorable math moment for you? And that could be your own experience as a student, but also your time in the classroom as well, something that’s really stuck with you through the years.

Crystal Watson: I’ll give you one of each. So as a student, I went through high school. I was the average math student BS and CS type of math student. I was just trying to get out of high school like most high schoolers are. So when I got to college, you know, you have to take the entrance test. And I tested into remedial math and I was like, What?

I just left trigonometry. Like, why am I in remedial math? Right? And it was an eye opener for me to start to think about the connection between what we need for life in math beyond K-12 and what we’re actually receiving. Right? Because I walked out thinking that I was just an average student. And yeah, I might have to take, you know, math one or whatever it is.

But no, I was in the 09809 right? And I just remember the the most pivotal moment of that experience was the teacher of that class. Her name was Dr. Couch, and she was like the first teacher that really made me feel like I could do it beyond. She’s like a isn’t your best. This is not good enough for me.

Like, do it again, right? When she just made me want to do it well and to slow down and build my own skills in math. And I ended up teaching her companion course in college with other students that had remedial math, which was very cool experience for me and really solidified my my desire to moving into education as a teacher.

My math moment was when I was teaching. I remember this as if it was yesterday. I was teaching unit rate and I was like, I had shown so many strategies we had. We talked about unit rate. We we were good on ratios. We had all the things in line ready to talk about unit rate. And my kids were like, I just don’t get it.

And I’m like, okay. So I did small groups and I was in a small group with a group of boys, and I asked them, like, What do you like to do on the weekends? And they were like, I don’t know, go to football games, whatever. I was like, okay, do you like the Bengals? Of course. We’re in Cincinnati, although they’re not the greatest all the time.

Everybody likes the Bengals, so they’re like, Yeah, we want to go to the Bengals game. I’m like, okay, so let’s say you and four of your boys want to go to the Bengals game, but your dad is the only one that is available to go and get the ticket right, because you guys are in school. How do you know how much to tell your friends that they got to pay you back?

And he was like, I would just take the total and we would figure out like how much each of us need to pay. And I’m like, But how would you do that? What operation would you use? You know, let’s let’s talk through this, write it down, draw a picture. And he literally drew ticket. There’s five of us and there’s there’s five tickets.

And this is how much all of them cost. So how much? And it was that light bulb moment, right? And I was like, okay, this is what relevant means right here now. And it might not be relevant to the next group that I work. Sure. So like really finding those connections to what we’re teaching in the classroom, to what they’re doing outside of the classroom.

It was a pivotal moment for me as a teacher, and then I’ve used that story over and over and over again as as a supporter of educators.

Jon Orr: You know, and I, I think those two stories are very much related because one of the you were telling the first story, I was immediately thought about the you know, like the mindset that your teacher, you know, I forget the name that you said, Dr. Couch. COUCH. Yeah. Like Dr. Koch must have had to realize, like, just just think about that as a as a, as a, as a math teacher, that the mindset shift she had to make for you to be like, I’m not just going to, like, you know, give you a test and see where you are, you know where you are.

I’m going to put that in the grade book like it was like, No, this isn’t good enough. Like, this is like in English. Teachers seem to do this all the time. It’s like, Hey, rough draft, final draft. We’re not going to mark the rough draft. We’re here to help you get better. It’s like we never do this in mathematics. It’s always like, Hey, here’s your homework. Practice. That’s like what teachers will say is the rough draft, but then they don’t actually give them say, Hey, this isn’t good enough yet, let’s make it good enough, and then we’ll take that copy. Like that mindset shift right there is that teacher, in my opinion, and I’ll I want to get your thoughts on this too, is like that mindset of your teacher was valuing you as a learner and then your your experience translating that to your other moment is you’re valuing those students and they’re thinking right, like, like it’s both, both mindset shifts around what is it we’re doing in our math classes and where the priorities are, I think is is a huge mindset shift. We all have. We all have to have.

Crystal Watson: Absolutely.. No, I agree with you, John. I think that it starts with the mindset, Right. Are you looking at me through a deficit lens? Are you looking at me through an asset lens? Right. And I know that we throw those terms around right now, especially in the education field, but it truly is it’s half the cliche of asset versus deficit, right?

It really is something that makes or breaks a math experience, ideally experience a school experience. If you if I walk into a room and someone thinks that I’m worth the time and someone sees something in me that, you know, we get them to, you know, do more for me or do something different for me that has such a large impact on me.

And then in the opposite, it has a large impact on me. When I see that someone just kind of leaves me alone and let me take my because I’m quiet or I’m not speaking up, I’m not answering a bunch of questions. That tells me something too, right? And both are equally as detrimental to student success. Right. And I feel like Dr. Couch showed me that with an asset based mindset, I am developing not only math students, but folks that can be the teacher through.

And this was I was not a teaching major, so she didn’t even know that I was going to go into education or anything like that. She was building life skills for me, like this isn’t good enough. We’re going to do some revision, right? I’m giving you feedback. Here’s the feedback now revise. And that’s where I also got the mindset that you should be able to do things more than once.

You know, if I’m giving you a test, my kids always had the option to retake because everybody learns at a different pace and they learn differently. Maybe the way that I showed it didn’t make sense. Maybe the way that they were exploring it with their peers didn’t make sense enough for it to stick for them to take their test. So she mindset is big and she did definitely model that for me and I’ve taken on that same mindset.

Yvette Lehman: It sounds like your experience with that particular educator really empowered you like that culture of high expectation and taking the time to get you to know you on a personal level. You know, it was a catalyst for just a change in in your approach to education further down the road and reading the title for your session at the upcoming summit.

I think what you’re doing is you’re asking teachers to be brave. If you’re asking them to relinquish the control by not having to be the no, we’re at the front of the room dictating. We’re going to do it this way and usually that’s because we’re in a vulnerable place, right where we have our own insecurities and we don’t want to relinquish the control to the students.

But you’re asking us to be brave and to step off the stage and to step back and allow authentic learning to happen. That student centered where we move into the role of facilitator. And so can you tell us a little bit more about why that transition is critical and how it positions at educators to create meaningful discourse in their classroom?

Crystal Watson: Yes, absolutely. So for me, I cannot I’m bored at the front of the classroom. I want to see what kids are doing right. I want and I’m just a naturally inquisitive person. So I’m always curious about what’s going on around me. So that translated into the classroom really easily. But for really getting that discourse going with students is so important.

I can’t tell you how quickly I’m going to paint this picture. Imagine being in the math class and you’re going through a unit, right? A unit of steps, and you have not really heard from the students. The students haven’t talked all they do is they sit, they copy your notes you’re doing. They’re copying the examples that you do and you get to the unit test and everybody bond.

Now you’re behind when there could have been small know formative assessments within that space where if you allowed them to talk even daily once a day to each other and you’re just walking around and listening, right, you’re listening for those your your favorite mistakes, right? So bringing those to the forefront and you are the facilitator. So like for the facilitator, it looks like asking questions that get the discussion between students started.

You’re not sitting, you’re not the discussion, you’re not in the discussion, you’re getting them started to discuss with each other. And I think it is hard for a lot of educators. There could be a minute reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons is that the classroom climate doesn’t allow for that, right? So the culture of the classroom doesn’t allow for students to feel comfortable to make mistakes out loud, to be able to to give their experiences with the mathematics or how they think about the mathematics, because they’re scared to be wrong, especially in front of you.

They think everything is going to tie to their grade or how you think about them intelligently, because math does tend to be the litmus for intelligence, right? If you’re a math person, you’re smart. If you’re not, you’re not. Right. Yeah. And there’s tons of research out there that shows that. But so really stepping back and like you said, relinquishing some of that control event and it’s it’s not about not ever doing direct instruction.

I think that’s what we get so far. We it reminds me of politics sometimes when we get on this this boat where we’re like one side is about, you know, an inquiry based learning and the other is direct instruction. And I’m like, No, it should really be both. And there’s times where you might have to do some whole group, there might be some direct instruction 1 to 1, there might be some direct instruction with small groups.

But it doesn’t mean just because you’re inquiry based or discussion based or student centered doesn’t mean that you are completely removing yourself as the person that is cultivating that learning. Right? So I’m thinking of us as the gardeners. So the flowers are are blooming and you know, the soil is tilled because we’re walking it, we’re tilling it where planting the seeds.

So we’re not just sitting back and watching the sun do everything we’re doing things to make sure that we all have a part in that growth. So I acknowledge that it’s scary and I acknowledge that a lot of math teachers don’t have the content knowledge to be able to in and like step back and allow students to do what they need to do to make sense of the math because they’re scared.

Like, what if they bring up something I’ve never heard before right? Oh, right. And that happened to me. The kids new area model, right? And I taught seventh and eighth grade math and they’re like, well, I can use an area model. And I’m like, What is that? You know? And I had never that’s not the way I look, right?

Sure. So they came up there and now I’m an area model girl and a seventh grader taught me.

Jon Orr: That’s what happens. Yeah, as soon as you see it, you can’t unsee it.

Crystal Watson: That’s right. I’m an area model girl because a seventh grader taught me, and he couldn’t. He wouldn’t have been able to teach me had I not moved out of the way and said, You know what? I got something to learn from you, too.

Yvette Lehman: I think you brought up a really good point about how this becomes almost a debate or polarizing. Yeah, you know, people think that what we’re advocating is that there’s no opportunities for direct instruction. It’s completely student led. But I actually use the analogy of the day, like it’s almost like you are behind the scenes pulling the strings, but you’re getting out of the students way. But by asking purposeful questions, by planning the task, by delivering the consolidation, like you are still the one who is steering the ship.

You’re just not, you know, doing it in a way where there’s no room for critical thinking on the part of the students. It’s like it’s just a different approach. And so I guess my question to you is how do we find that balance Like it can’t be, as you said, all student led discovery based, but it also can’t be all direct instruction mimicking.

Yeah. So I think what many teachers are looking to understand is what does a day look like? What does a week look like? What are the structures and components that help me weave this together in a really balanced and enriching way for students?

Crystal Watson: Yeah, that’s a really great question, Yvette, because I was a station’s teacher, I taught on Mondays and then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. You were in your stations doing things that had to do with what I taught on Monday. So Monday kids knew when you came in on Monday, we were sitting and we were talking and we were making sure that we had the vocabulary.

We made sure that we had, you know, the notes that we needed in order for you to access what you needed to access for the week. And then on Fridays, we’re feedback Friday and a quiz. And my quiz was never how many questions it might have been three or four. And then they would give me feedback on what they liked about the week, what they needed more of, you know, all of that stuff.

And then I would interweave those the next week. I knew that most teachers don’t do it that way. I get it. I knew that before I moved out of the classroom. So when I became a coach, stations has been stations and small groups has been a really huge push. And I think that’s where you get to that, right? You get to that differentiation piece and getting outside of the stage on the stage by implementing small groups and and stations. But a lot of teachers aren’t aren’t they don’t know how to do that yet. So we started with like, okay, let’s do a split class. Half your classes on this and half of your class is being taught by you.

And then let’s split it into thirds and it would take us, you know, maybe a whole school year to get to a point where we have four stations for kids and a rotation for some teachers. And it did not mean that it was all new teachers that needed that. There were teachers that needed to understand how to balance direct instruction and allowing students to just explore that had been in the game for, you know, decades.

And we were just but the the part that I think that folks need to understand is there’s always just like we do with our students, there’s always an onramp, right? So we have to figure out what that onramp is for ourselves. So whatever your comfort level is, do that really well and then let’s break outside of that comfort zone and do something a little different.

Like split your class and you have half and half. And then after you get really good with that, then you have three stations, right? And I don’t want to say stations is like the the, the answer to everything because I have teachers that that work for me right now or with me right now and they don’t do stations, they’re not stations teachers.

It’s just not something that they like to do. But their students are always moving. They’re up, they’re moving, they’re talking to each other. They’re writing things on Flipkart Paper. And I have a teacher, Mr. Burton, that instead of doing summaries on paper at the end of teaching his unit, the students write a rap and make a beat, and then they record it.

And that’s their summaries that they tell us about what they learned about. So just really getting creative in ways to make sure that students have outlet for expressing their learning that that might be uncomfortable to you at first, but just taking it bite sized it. Don’t try to write boiled.

Jon Orr: I agree for sure and I think what you said about, you know, when when you said like getting to stations and in that framework and structure that you were using and it had success, I think every teacher who’s listening knows that the real power is when we we get to the one on one one on small group. Yeah.

You know, environments where the real feedback cycle starts to happen and where the real learning starts to occur when like you said, like how can we create those interactions with students so that they can have that themselves? And then we can also be involved in that process. 

Like that is where the real learning takes place. And we’ve seen that, you know, from our experiences and it’s now the question I think becomes for us when we’re structuring our lesson, structuring our unit, structuring our weeks, is to ask that question of not like, what does it look like, but it’s like, let’s get clear on what our learning goal is for today or the next couple of days. Let’s get clear on like what it looks like when we’re performing well at that learning goal. But then the question we should be asking for structure is how fast? Like how can I get to that? So that interactions with teachers and students at that small group level, but. Student A student Faster, yeah. Like how can I structure that so that they can create that?

Because I think that’s the progression that I ended up changing along the way is like, yeah, we were, we are, you know, stage on the stage we were, we were lecturing notes, examples, blah, blah, blah. And then you realize that when you got to the hey, and now I have 20 minutes for kids to practice where you got into like helping them one on one, one on small group, that’s where it was, was like, Well, how can I restructure so that I can get there faster, which means I have to change what you know, what that initial prompt or provocation as at the beginning of class to have those moves like it’s all kind of

coming down to how can I create that faster as a as a kind of a guiding question? I think that we we are kind of kind of after for, you know, thinking about our lessons, which like goes back to some of the points we’ve all made here, it’s like to do that takes, you know, guts as a teacher and content, knowledge, comfort and also just comfort in like what you had said, Crystal, about just, you know, the student who showed you the area model, like you had that kind of like comfort that it’s okay that I’m that I’m not, you know, the the the provider of all information in this room right now.

I guess this is these are shifts that we have to make. And I think our listener right now is that, you know, if you’re listening to a math podcast, you know, riding your bike or, you know, on your way to work, you’re probably one of these people, right? So so like, you’re already doing some of these things. But the other part is those people are probably in a position to support teachers who aren’t there yet.

Yes. And it’s like it’s like so think of it like this. Like if you’re in your session, you’re going to be talking about the facilitator role that that shift from teacher to facilitator. What would you what it would be a first step and I would say speak to the people who are supporting teachers who are shifting that that component.

Like what do you think is like that main, that huge takeaway. You want people to take away from your session about helping people shift that that dynamic?

Crystal Watson: Yeah, that’s a really great, great question because it does take support and I think that’s the first step, is understanding that teachers need support too, right? So I’m not walking into a room and feeling like the teacher already has all the skills. Right now teachers are playing therapist, parent, nurse, like all the things, right? They’re not just teaching math.

And so really making sure that we understand that their time is valuable and really taking taking that position. Right? Your time is valuable and this is how I want I like to use our time together. Is that okay with you and doing it in collaboration? But before you can even start to talk about, you know, those those differentiated stations and those small groups and getting students discussing and things like that, you’ve got to talk about belonging, right?

So you got to talk about relationships. You’ve got to talk about students being able to see themselves in each other. So routines, the bishop’s talks, Bishop Sims talks about the mirrors, windows and sliding glass doors. That is so true. When kids are able to see themselves, the others and then see the world within the classroom, they’re more likely to take risks.

Right? So really creating that culture of my my friend Akita said like home, right? So like when we’re at home, we, we we’re ready to go home at the end of the day because there’s something comfortable there, right? So there’s a blanket that you’re looking forward to snuggling up with on the couch or, you know, having a beer after school or whatever your thing is.Right hand.

Right? Both. And plus petting your dog or whatever, going to work out for those weird people that do that. No, I’m kidding. Going to work out. And, you know, thinking about that from a teacher standpoint, like what are the things that kids look forward to in school? And you’re going to have to talk to them. You’re going to have to talk to them and ask them, because every year, every class.

So my first bill class never looked like my second bill class and a second Bill class never looked like my third bill in my class. That was after lunch. Never looked like my first bill. Right? So totally understanding that this is a process and not a switch. Right. So we can’t just pick up. Let’s make you a station teacher.

You’re on. It is a slow process. It’s removing barriers for teachers and things like that. So I think that from a support standpoint, I think the first thing that you go into to support is building a culture of respect, of mistake making, of comfort in the mathematics. And that doesn’t mean that everybody comes in there and loves it, but it means that everybody comes in ready to work and does their work and perseveres whether they’re right or wrong and are able to articulate what their thoughts were while they were persevering.

Right. And show us. So I think that’s the first thing is really supporting teachers to to make sure to build that that culture. And then we should start to chip away at how we do it, you know, slowly, half class, third class, whatever.

Yvette Lehman: I think you are just incredibly spot on when you talk about that culture that needs to be established. And as a coach, it’s like you can walk into a room and I don’t know if teachers realize this, but the energy in the room is almost palpable. Yes, like within 5 minutes. I know if this is a safe place to learn or not, but it is so from as an outsider walking in and, you know, an unbiased observation, there is actually a feel to a room If students, you know, have good energy and they they feel seen and it’s very obvious when that’s not the case.

And so to your point, you know, if that is not established, if the safety is not there, if the comforts not there, the willingness to take risks is not there. A lot of this work is in vein, like those are the conditions that have to be set to create this atmosphere. So we are so excited for your session. I hope I hope I’m introducing Crystal John. I mean, I have to look at the schedule and check in order because I’d love to attend this session.

Jon Orr: Thank you. Ah, I have a feeling when I looked at it last, that’s.

Yvette Lehman: Great because I’m excited about the session and I’m wondering just for those who are, you know, there’s so many sessions to choose from at the summit. That’s the challenge, of course, with big conferences. So for those who are considering selecting your session, what will be kind of the big take away and what do you hope teachers will walk away with at the end of that session?

One Right now teachers need loved on and understood and see and to be seen. So my session will absolutely do that. If you if you’re in my session, you will walk away energized and ready to do something different. And it might not be harder. Maybe you take away something that will make your life easier, but it will be teacher centered through centering students, of course.

But at the end of the day, you’re going to walk away with tangible options that you can do right away and tangible options that can be a long term goal as well. So we’re not just going to talk about it. We’re going to we’re going to walk around, walk away with our next best step. Everybody will have one.

And, you know, doesn’t doesn’t matter where you are in the work, you can be at the very beginning and not ready at all. Or you can already be a station teacher and will be you’ll walk away with something new to some.

Jon Orr: Yeah. Awesome. We’re looking like you’ve said, we’re looking forward definitely to that to your session amongst all the other sessions. Folks, if you have not yet registered, head over to Summit dot make map moments dot com and register. It is completely free, completely free to engage throughout the weekend. We’re excited. This will be the sixth annual summit. We’re hoping.

I think we’re projected to have 20,000 teachers registered by the by that date. So we’re excited to come engage in that learning across North America and the world. Crystal, thank you so much for joining us here today to give everyone kind of a snippet of of what you’re going to be talking about. But where can folks go to learn more about the work you’re doing and kind of dig in a little bit deeper?

Crystal Watson: Yeah, absolutely. And again, thank you are and this is such an awesome opportunity. I’ve shared it with my own teachers and I’m like, you don’t have to come to my session, you know, me. And we see each other every day, other state sessions, you know, there’s amazing people. They can find me. I am a collective person, so I would love to hear from you all and what you bring to this work because it’s going to take us all right.

It’s going to take us. It is to move mathematics for our students. You can find me on X. I don’t know how long I’m going to be on there right now. I’m shadow banned but on ex underscore Crystal and Watson also Instagram, Crystal and Watson and you can email me at Crystal and Watson edge or no Watson crystal M at gmail.com And then you can also visit my website at Crystal and Watson dot com.

Jon Orr: Awesome. Thanks so much And we hope you you know you enjoy the rest of your time over there and kind of bopping around and getting all your places.

Crystal Watson: Absolutely. You all take care. Have a good weekend.

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